The Acura CL Type S Coupe Was A Delicacy For Automobile Afficionados

"Margin Of Error" (marginoferror) 01/20/2015 at 14:03 • Filed to: FORGOTTEN CLASSICS, FC, ESSAY

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The second generation Acura TL, launched in 1998 as a 1999 model, was a sad departure from the craziness of the great 5 banger-powered, hardtop'd Vigor and 2.5 TL. However, there was a coupe, the CL ..

Welcome to Forgotten Classics.

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As demonstrated in the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and on the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , the goal of this series of essays will be to bring cars that are getting no love back in the limelight. FC is also a thorough analysis of why such cars remained obscure and never got the praise they deserved.

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This week's Forgotten Classic is the 2002-2003 Acura CL Type S Coupe. In Acura parlance, Type S is like ///M for BMW, SS for Chevy or GLH for the Dodge Omni. It means business, and in the Acura TL/CL, that business translates into 260 horses, 3 pedals and a 6 gears manual transmission. Are you not entertained now ?

The true story is that very few actually were, and the type S coupe sold poorly compared to the sedan, and we are not even talking about the disappointingly low take rate of models equipped with the proper transmission.

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It was the early 2000's and coupes were already going out of fashion. Some people say that there was no Y2K bug, but I disagree. The Y2K bug was the blandification of the automotive industry, the global beigeification of transports and the sissyfication of motorsports. Really, the Y2K bug is real, and sad.

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2002 was also before Acura lost its way, so the brand was still admired by enthusiasts for the NSX and Ayrton Senna, even if Acura's migration towards SUV's and other automatic blandmobiles was in full swing.

The 2002-2003 Acura CL type S coupe was already an endangered species, and few people stepped up to save it. It was one of the last stylish personal luxury coupe. It was the Japanese 635CSi, the modern Buick GNx, the non-British Bentley Continental R.

Tragically, the people have spoken, and Acura listened. As a result, we now only have the MDX, RDX, RLX and the successor of the CL/TL, the TLX.

Oh and that new glorified CR-Z they call NSX, blasphemy.

Someone needs to tell Acura that you can't capture the magic back with a smoke show and some added X's.

Thanks for reading and see you next week

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:05

1

I thought it was called the CL?

TheHondaBro > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:05

16

My dad used to drive a CL Type-S. Man, that thing as a rocket ship.

Party-vi > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:06

16

30hp more than an E46 but slower. That being said, I love the looks of the 3.2L Type S but wouldn't get one because the auto transmissions were prone to being absolute pieces of shit.

jariten1781 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:13

5

So boring looking...It's the most anonymous coupe ever made. Probably had a bit to do with its poor sales.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:13

1

I parked my regular TL next to a TL Type-S for an entire year of high school. I was jealous every morning.

Margin Of Error > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 14:13

0

Even the manual ?

Margin Of Error > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 01/20/2015 at 14:15

0

Thanks, I had to fixed it. For some reasons I thought the CL moniker was only used for its weirdo little predecessor

Milky > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:17

10

Are you not entertained now ?

No, because FWD coupe. Nothing like losing practicality for the same driving dynamics.

RazoE > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:25

1

I always loved the CL. One of the few FWD cars I lust after.

RazoE > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:26

5

Small fact: The CL was used as the cover car for Gran Turismo 3.

BigHairDon'tCare > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:27

1

My first Acura was a 2001 3.2 CL...it was love at first drive. I told my husband I would never drive anything else but Acura! I now have a 2013 ILX and gifted my husband with the CL (which still runs like new, even though it has over 200K miles on it!)

Brosenkranz > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 14:31

2

Basically all Honda automatics from forever until now have been prone to being pieces of shit.

Margin Of Error > BigHairDon'tCare 01/20/2015 at 14:31

0

I drive an 1996 1.6EL and love it, even if I want to upgrade to a Panther

Damasconian > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:32

6

Great post. This car was awesome. And one of the best manuals available for its day. Acura used to make wonderful manual cars, I bought a 2004 TL 6-MT when they first came out for the slick shift feel alone.

Acura - please come back. We miss you.

Doug DeMuro > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:33

5

I liked these. Actually '03 was the only year for the 6-speed manual, so they're pretty rare. Before that I think it was a 5-speed (or maybe just an auto?).

The automatic had severe problems and is not to be purchased, especially these days, so you really want to try and find an 03 with the stick.

Hoonigan96 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:34

2

My dad bought an '01 CL Type S over a E46 330i coupe and he hasn't regretted that decision, the CL had more power, better economy, and most of all it was reliable (because Honda). I drive that car everyday and 243,xxx miles later its still running like it was new

GARedE34 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:34

3

Ha! You've done a piece on the first car I ever bought for myself! A few years out of college I was ready to be done with the 5-speed Altima and I found a great deal on a 2002 CL Type-S, a red six-speed identical to the one pictured. I was terrified of German maintenance and this popped up at just the right moment on a used car lot. Sure it was front wheel drive, but it had a Bose stereo before Bose went to complete shit, it was 120 more horses than I was used to, there was a slick-shifting six speed, and it looked damn nice. Sadly, I only had it six weeks or so before I totaled it leaving a sales meeting on my birthday. I made the jump to Ze Germans and haven't looked back, but I'll always have fond memories of that particular car.

Margin Of Error > Doug DeMuro 01/20/2015 at 14:34

0

Yea verily, people opting for the automatic were/are missing out

Icantthinkofanythingwitty > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:34

2

It's too often that amazing cars are simply ignored or deeply underrated because of slightly better competition or just cars that become popular via fad.

dropthatclutch > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:34

8

I was a senior in HS and my mother had a second gen TL Type-S.

Caught some air with my brother going way too fast over RR tracks and nearly wiped out the blood line.

Good times.

Margin Of Error > GARedE34 01/20/2015 at 14:35

0

Nice !

Hoonigan96 > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 14:36

2

I heavily disagree with you on the auto trans being a piece of shit, I've been driving one for about 2 years now and have had no trans related issues and mine has over 240k on the clock.

elevenafter9 > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 14:38

2

Yeah my GF was really close to buying a 3.2 TL with the auto, but we realized in the 11th hour that those transmissions were doomed. Good news is that scared her away from automatics in general, and she got a manual RSX.

don mega > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:39

7

I bought an 03 6-speed CL type-S new in 2002. Still have it. Hooned the shit out of it for at least 2 months after I bought it. There has never been anything wrong with it in the 14 years I've daily driven it. It has 144k miles and I keep trying to come up with a logical reason for me to get a new car but I can't find one. Bluetooth would be nice I suppose.

StevenG > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:40

1

After that terrible pizza list, how can anyone trust your judgement?

Jim is one of KFCs secret ingredients > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:40

1

My mom had a 3.2CL Type S... automatic though.

But I loved borrowing that car from her in high school/college. Was a ton of fun to drive, looked fantastic, and really has held up over the years stylistically.

Shift24 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:40

1

I have never heard of problems with a Honda Manual other than the 3 gear problem in the K20Z3 Civic Si. I love the Honda Manuals, always had them as one of the best. And actually some of the manuals used in these years TLs and CLs are being swapped in to the 98-02 Accord v6s because of the auto trans problems.

GARedE34 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:41

1

You almost never see the models with those blacked-out headlight surrounds... I suspect it was a one-year-only thing. Really hated to lose that car so fast.

JCgt > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:41

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I check Autotrader every now and then for these. I liked the snugness of the interior. Big fan.

Margin Of Error > don mega 01/20/2015 at 14:41

0

Please keep it !

ohyeahthatguy69 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:41

1

My buddy had a Vigor and MAN that thing was cool. His dad has an 06 TL-S that's pretty nice as well.

Earl Snake Hips Tucker > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:43

11

greyspace > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:43

3

Funny how different two people's perspectives can be. I vividly remember test driving one as soon as the Boulder Acura dealer got one. The torque steer and the under steer shocked me, and it drove much larger than I expected. It was not the middle-manager's Prelude I was sure it was going to be. Honestly, I always considered it one of Honda's first big steps in the wrong direction.

KC-10Paul > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:43

9

Remember when Acura made cars that could actually "thrill" you. Hopefully they just fire everybody and bring the guys out of retirement that brought us this.

Margin Of Error > greyspace 01/20/2015 at 14:44

2

The Prelude of that era was beautiful

KageMalca > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 14:45

0

My 2001 had the trans go out at 125k on the odometer. I still miss that car to this day.

The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending) > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:45

6

was a sad departure from the craziness of the great 5 banger-powered, hardtop'd Vigor and 2.5 TL.

You can't bring up the 5 cylinder Hondas without bringing up one of the craziest things about them. They run the drive axle through the engine block.

Margin Of Error > StevenG 01/20/2015 at 14:46

1

That "terrible pizza list" started a Pizza Frenzy on oppo and plenty of Jalops had their favorite pizza for lunch that day.

I'm a humanist.

bayman97 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:48

11

"Oh and that new glorified CR-Z they call NSX, blasphemy."

What an idiot.

elevenafter9 > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 14:48

0

It's a well known fact that those transmissions are all but guaranteed to fail. Your's is the exception to the rule. You're lucky.

I've been told that it was because they switched the direction of the engine rotation for the V6s at that time, and ended up having all sorts of problems. I have no confirmation on that, though.

KC-10Paul > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:49

4

Even if they just cranked out new ones of these with zero updates... I would probably still buy it.

Shift24 > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 14:50

0

So far you have gotten lucky. There are times where these V6 trans do last but they do not out weigh the bad (somewhat deserved) rep they get. We have had one go out at 190k and 105K so it depends.

Ozzy > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:51

3

In my opinion this is one of the most boring looking cars I've ever seen. It feels so horribly uninspired - like the designers took zero risk.

JoaquinPhoenixCleftLip > TheHondaBro 01/20/2015 at 14:52

0

Dude, a 225hp e46 could beat this thing WITHOUT a stick. FWD produced a ton of torque but oversteer on launch.

yesthatsall > Doug DeMuro 01/20/2015 at 14:52

1

5-spd available for the first version CL. then auto only for the 01-02 (second version), then the 6-spd for the '03. mine's pushing 160k, and i'm already trying to decide how to keep it going for 300k.

William Clavey > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:53

1

They were indeed great cars but had troublesome and complicated automatic transmissions. The manual ones were of course the ones you'd want, but they were as rare as the pope's feces.

Back then, the only people who could afford this somewhat expensive coupe were old rich people, so most of them would go for the auto box. Plus, it was hard to convince luxury car buyers to buy this FWD glorified Honda Accord instead of a 3 series or CLK coupe.

The CL was nevertheless a great engineering acheivement, it was quick, stylish and had a fantastically luxurious interior. I actually came really close to buying one, but got a Civic Si instead.

JoaquinPhoenixCleftLip > BigHairDon'tCare 01/20/2015 at 14:53

0

What a shame, you're missing out on so many better vehicles.

TFSIVTEC drivesavolvo > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:53

3

This was my first car a while back, I still absolutely miss it! It was Agean Blue that gave it a sporty look compared to the white pictured. Also unlike most VTEC systems, the J32 v6 on this Type S was for performance not economy. Most importantly, all manuals were fitted with a mechanical limited slip differential. I know it was just a big FWD coupe based on an accord but God was it fun to hoon...

Margin Of Error > Ozzy 01/20/2015 at 14:53

2

That's your opinion.

greyspace > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:53

1

It was. I was young and stupid and doing that idiotic thing with the Joneses. I should've got a Type SH and held on to it for a decade.

yesthatsall > GARedE34 01/20/2015 at 14:54

1

if it was a 6-speed, it was a 2003.

CarlitoBenito > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 14:54

2

Ah yes... the infamous 5-speed auto. It's why I no longer drive a 3rd Gen TL. Slipping at 92K = traded it on a good day.

CarlitoBenito > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 14:54

0

It was probably rebuilt before you bought it.

yesthatsall > jariten1781 01/20/2015 at 14:55

1

WRX driver i presume?

JoaquinPhoenixCleftLip > don mega 01/20/2015 at 14:55

0

LEDs, AWD, better mileage and performance from turbo fours, I'd assume far better onboard infotainment?

theshinobi01 > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 14:56

1

The Type-S tiptronic on the TL and CL Type-S had defective clutch packs and the transmission would eat itself to death. So yes those transmissions are a piece of crap.

Zeniff > Shift24 01/20/2015 at 14:56

1

Honda manuals — apparently there have been issues with some. A couple years ago I was looking at a used 2009 Accord (5sp manual) and it kept grinding into 3rd, like the synchros were gone. Went home and did a search, found that there were issues with 3rd gear in 6spds (I believe a TSB was released for it), there was also some talk that 5 spds also had this issue, but Honda wasn't acknowledging it. I was close to sealing the deal, but that transmission made me walk away.

Color me surprised as well. My previous car (94 Civic hatch) had a manual that was velvet.

JoaquinPhoenixCleftLip > ohyeahthatguy69 01/20/2015 at 14:57

0

I'm sorry but that profile looks identical to my 98' Accord SE.

TheHondaBro > JoaquinPhoenixCleftLip 01/20/2015 at 14:57

3

Ok. It's still fast.

Jonathan Harper > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:58

12

I was obsessed with these for a hot minute when I was younger. Especially in this shade of blue:

It was during this same era that I had some DOPE Honda Civic Si 1/18 scale die cast models that you could swap the wheels and hoods and wings on. Now I need to dig those out.

StevenG > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:58

0

It might have, but your list was still so bad I thought you were trolling. I still think you might have been.

Brumos59-2 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:58

1

I used to work with a girl who had a black 1994 Integra GSR. When she decided to replace it with a new RSX Type-S I went with her to test drive it. Well, she saw the CL Type-S that day and fell in love with it. After driving both she bought the silver CL-S. She drove it like an old lady, just as she had done with the GSR, but she used to let me take them out to stretch their legs every once in a while. At the time I had my non-VTEC Integra and a CRX HF so that 260 HP CL-S felt like an absolute monster to me. I wonder what happened to that one.

iTsLiKeAnEgG > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 14:58

0

If its anything like the auto trans in my wifes old 2002 Accord (and I suspect it is) then its garbage. Hers crapped out around 120k or so.

kis_ev > KC-10Paul 01/20/2015 at 14:59

1

My brother-in-law bought one of these used in college, sold it when he had his first kid, and then bought a yellow one last year. He's got an S2000 for the track, Miata for autocross, WRX for his wife, and the yellow ITR because he absolutely loves it (they also have a Cx-9 for the kids and a Pontiac G6 for his job).

Built BMW Tough > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 14:59

0

I never liked the looks, but it was a great engine and reliability and resale was top notch. Here's a comparo that C&D did where the 330Ci (yes, my BMW bias is showing again) walked away:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/ac…

JoaquinPhoenixCleftLip > TheHondaBro 01/20/2015 at 15:00

0

True, I thought the same until cars this size started creeping up over 300hp. Now you can get 4-bangers that do 0-60 in the mid-fives!

athought123 > BigHairDon'tCare 01/20/2015 at 15:00

0

so did you ask your husband if he would consider trading (now his) CL for your ILX?

Party-vi > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 15:01

8

I'd agree with you if you had put all 240k miles on yourself in the last two years but I don't think you did. The transmission in your car probably shit the bed 100k miles ago and was either rebuilt or replaced. I foresee a large transmission expense in your future.

Malforus > Doug DeMuro 01/20/2015 at 15:01

0

My sister had one, she spun it on the Northeast extension. I probably drove it like 2-3 times and was always a bit put off by the clutch engagement and well the size of it.

BraappBraapp > Shift24 01/20/2015 at 15:01

1

Even that issue was only present in 2006-2007 models. My previous 2009 model Si was fine, but I did experience it on a test drive on a used 2006 Si.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 15:02

1

My uncle had a Land Rover that never went wrong either. Sometimes the reliable ones; not the lemons, are the outliers.

Ishift93 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:02

0

The great 5 cylinder powered TL?? That was my first xar and im afraid it was anyting but great. Terrible on gas and slow as hell. Atleast it was always reliable

Ishift93 > Ishift93 01/20/2015 at 15:03

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car*

X-cchannel-M > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:03

1

The Acura CL may be a driver's car but it looks like a bar of soap. The TLX may not have exciting mechanicals but it is a looker in my books.

Party-vi > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:03

4

The manual was fine. Also "slower" is a bit of a stretch considering 0-60 they're evenly matched; only a 1/4 mile track would show the 3.2L Type S coming in about a half second slower than the BMW. R&T called it the best handing FWD car they had ever driven up to that point.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:04

0

In what parallel universe were the 2.5TL and Vigor "craziness"?

The 5 cyl was weird for Honda, but I'd stop well short of calling it crazy.

Stylarini > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:04

1

Though not as cool as the concept car that preceded it:

Tremec, + 1 Yugo (aka the Blugo) > don mega 01/20/2015 at 15:05

0

You can retrofit Bluetooth compatibility. I'm running a Bluetooth receiver piggy-backed onto my iPod adapter with the factory head-unit in my 2005 Civic EX, so it should be possible with your radio too (same mfg/same era interface, so it should be similar).

Of course, you can always go full aftermarket . . .

Captain Intenso > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:05

1

I was never fond of this model. There was something odd about the sharp angular front and the bulbous rear end. There's a house near me with two CLs sitting in the driveway. Apparently they like the looks of them. At any rate, they look better than the shit Acura is pushing now.

Chc36 > TheHondaBro 01/20/2015 at 15:05

1

I dragged against my friend's in an FR-S (not saying much, but figured the weight difference, plus the age of his engine might make it competitive) and while close he still won 2/3, That engine has stood up over time, its a nice car.

Daddio > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:06

2

You can still get a V6 Accord Coupe with a manual. That's probably as close as we'll ever get from now on.

Daddio > Daddio 01/20/2015 at 15:06

0

With my newly enshortened commute, trading up from my Sport sedan is awful tempting.

Vic788 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:07

0

anyone reading this buy an NSX and hold on to it. Honda might be pulling the plug on the Acura lineup.

Ike B > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 15:07

0

Yeah I agree, there's nothing classic about Honda V6 transmissions from about 2000-2003, aka the CL's heyday. I see quite a few of those in the junkyard with zero crash damage. The trans just exploded right on time.

I wouldn't be surprised if the only 3.2 CL-S coupes I see are sticks.

Unbearable Pain > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:08

1

Well, it sucks it's FWD, but it's more practical than a Miata, has a manual, and over 200hp. Personally, I'd say that if cheap enough, it would be a major upgrade in comparison to my Corolla.

Margin Of Error > Vic788 01/20/2015 at 15:08

0

Source ?

Vic788 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:09

1

Acura is a loss brand dealers do not make any $ on these things. furthermore any of their FWD products used I'd make sure you fully check the transmission if its auto. any problems is not a simple fix and can be super costly. The motors are perfect in these cars but the transmissions with the exception of the (J) vin cars from japan or built in japan any of the USA made ones.

Shift24 > BraappBraapp 01/20/2015 at 15:10

0

Yeah my friends 06 and my dads 07 fiji blue have both done it but i have noticed it more on the 06

someoneatacura > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 15:10

0

Tick tock. Those transmissions were worse around the 99-2000 year, but yeah, generally they couldn't handle the power from the new V6s.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:10

3

Just a point of observation, you can listen or totally tell me to fuck myself but just wanted to throw it out there.

Might be a bit more enjoyable if you could write more about the car, since it is the point of your piece. Grandstanding about Honda kind of took away from it, and it seems like you spent more time doing that than speaking about the CL.

Either way, thanks for the post.

Margin Of Error > Ishift93 01/20/2015 at 15:10

0

To be fair, it was probably in poor condition

The Stig's Rustbelt Cousin > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 15:11

1

How many miles were on it when you bought it? Odds are, that transmission has been replaced at least once. If it was replaced after 1995, it's probably got the improved version that isn't likely to fail, but prior to that, the Honda/Acura 5AT was a hand grenade with no pin.

You may not have had any transmission related issues, but the hundreds of customers that sat at my service desk at a Honda dealer in 2003-2004 would say otherwise.

Iamopenlyjudgingyou > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:11

0

Why do I recall the six speed manual in these cars as "delicate" POS with a shorter lifespan than the autotragic's?

The Stig's Rustbelt Cousin > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 15:12

2

If it was replaced after 2005, it's probably not going to fail. Honda finally figured out and corrected the issue by then.

Simba_thegreat > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:12

2

well can't be too far off...everyone pretty much agrees with his opinion. Myself included and the rest of America. I mean look at the sales figures for the regular coupe...

sauceman101 > Party-vi 01/20/2015 at 15:12

0

went through 3 auto trannies in a '99 CL with the smaller 3.0 motor by 140k total piece of shit

Margin Of Error > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/20/2015 at 15:13

4

Thanks for your input, I'm trying to get better every time. It's only my 3rd article, so there's 49 weeks left.

I'm taking this into great consideration, regards and thanks you.

Vic788 > Margin Of Error 01/20/2015 at 15:13

0

.

Kraut-brenner > Hoonigan96 01/20/2015 at 15:13

0

You're lucky then, my 02 TL-S has 131k on the clock and ate an auto trans under warranty at 45k, then again just after I bought it at 90k. So far so good, but I still wish it was a row-your-own every day.

Margin Of Error > Simba_thegreat 01/20/2015 at 15:14

3

I think it's classy.